Can the Muslim-Jewish Relationship Bring About World Change?

AMANI: Would you mind starting us off by telling us a little bit about the work that you do at JVP and maybe your background, what led you to this work?

LIV KUNINS-BERKOWITZ: It’s just a privilege to be in a coalition with so many people who are fiercely advocating for liberation, for peace, and for real safety for all human beings. So I grew up in a Jewish anti-Zionist family. And so this work has kind of always been part of my Jewish identity. And I’m in this work in part out of deep solidarity with Palestinians and a strong commitment to Palestinian freedom. And also because I want a Judaism beyond Zionism, a Judaism that’s not in support of a nation-state, an ethnio-nation state. And instead, that kind of uplifts to me what the core Jewish values are and the values I was raised with, which are with this idea called “Tikkun Olam,” which is like repairing the world. And there’s so much of those ideas of peace and justice woven through the tradition. And that’s what I was raised at when I went to an ḥavruta school growing up, which is like a Jewish study group. And yes, I think right now it feels like Judaism is being so misconstrued, first and foremost by Jews. And that’s so heartbreaking. 

So partly it’s this effort to really return the tradition and the culture back to what to me feels like the true parts, which are about commitment to social justice, living in the diaspora, all over the world, working with people of all different groups for peace and for safety and for rights of all kinds.

And yeah, so I grew up in these communities and this culture and trying to create more spaces where people can practice Judaism and be deep in our culture and tradition without supporting Zionism and was doing that more in my communities. And then this fall I had the opportunity to join the staff at Jewish Voice for Peace. And it’s been really, yeah, I mean, it’s obviously been such a heartbreaking and horrifying couple of months and also like an honor to just be in this movement and to meet so many people. And kind of the other side of the heartbreak has just been seeing so many people come together with such conviction.

Zionism has been around for only about 100 years. And Judaism is a thousands-year-old tradition. 

And just knowing that what we’re saying is rooted in such a long history on my mom’s side. I come from a family that was always anti-Zionist and anti-nationalist. And so when, you know, right now all these people are saying like this is what Judaism is, it’s supportive Israel. It’s like this idea of Zionism has been around for only about 100 years. And Judaism is a thousands-year-old tradition. So it feels so, so clear to us that there’s always been alternatives, always been Jews who don’t see Zionism as the answer. And so we’re just trying to really impart uplift those histories as well.

This idea that you had mentioned about the concept of hereness, or “Doikayt” — is it kind of like the idea of integration within society?

It’s like this balance because I think they like integration, but not assimilation. So it’s like not like, oh, we’re going to fully become, you know, if you’re in America, which is like still predominantly a Christian country like we’re not going to hide our culture, hide our tradition, but we’re also going to be in deep community with other people. And so to me, it’s this word that gets that balance. 

On the one hand, there’s like total isolationism where you’re only with your own people or maybe you want to have your own nation-state just for your people. And then, on the other hand, there’s like total assimilation where you just turn into like whatever culture. And, you know, that did happen to some extent in my family. Like I don’t speak Yiddish for the most part. And that feels like this big loss for me. And that feels like a swinging too far towards total assimilation. 

So to me, the Doikayt kind of grasps that middle where you’re you’re you hold on to your culture and your tradition and you’re like in present with wherever you are and like what those dynamics are, what the ideas are, wherever you are.

Joe Biden keeps saying … that if there wasn’t Israel, not a Jew in this world would be safe. And like as an American Jew, I’m like, it’s actually your job as the American president to keep me safe and not Israel.

But yet to what your point was saying, you know, Joe Biden keeps saying, which is like so messed up to me. He keeps saying that if there wasn’t Israel, not a Jew in this world would be safe. And like as an American Jew, I’m like, it’s actually your job as the American president to keep me safe and not Israel. And I feel like he’s exporting this idea that Jews have to be safe and making that all on the Israeli government. And to me, I’m like the Israeli government absolutely does not keep me safe. I think it makes Jews less safe. And so to see Biden kind of like avoid that responsibility completely seems really just upsetting to me.

It kind of brings me to wanting to get a sense from you about what you think the Muslim-Jewish solidarity looks like, even beyond what’s happening in Gaza, because on a personal level, I can’t tell you how much, you know, JVP has kind of been like a saving grace for us.

Yeah, I think, you know, there’s so there’s so many levels of solidarity and feel, again, grateful for, I just like it increasingly growing and the solidarity deepening. I think there’s like solidarity and like the super just interpersonal relational level of like showing up for each other, like helping each other, like celebrate our own holidays, like cooking for each other, that kind of just like community care. I don’t come from a Sephardic or Mizrahi background, but those are Arab Jews who have lived in, you know, different Arab countries for hundreds of years. And there’s like so many stories prior to Zionism of the kind of like community care that existed between Jewish and Muslim communities, especially like in Morocco, for example, where a Moroccan Jewish friend of mine was telling me about, you know, on Yom Kippur, like a really holy day in Judaism, her Muslim neighbors like bringing over food to help her break the fast. It’s also Yom Kippur is like a fasting day. So there’s kind of that like micro community solidarity.

And then I think on a much larger level, it’s like deep political solidarity, because, you know, as much as America tries to be for everyone, it’s still at the end of the day a Christian nation, like there’s just this assumption that everyone, you know, celebrates Christmas or all these kinds of things. And, you know, I think one thing is like pushing for holidays and schools, especially public school systems. You know, there’s been so many times in my life of having to go to school. I’m like, what are really holy days for me? When I was in high school, there was a big push in New York to get Eid to be a holiday in the New York City school system. 

So I think like that kind of like political solidarity showing up and making sure that there’s kind of infrastructure and like in government for us to be able to practice our traditions, practice our holidays. And then, you know, on the highest level, I think it’s about being in deep, deep solidarity against white supremacy, which is to me what undergirds like both anti-Semitism and Islamophobia, even though there are, of course, many white Jews and there are white Muslims. But this kind of logic of like white Christian supremacy is violent and dangerous. And so, you know, I think it’s showing up for each other that way.

And right now, especially, you know, us as Jews showing up for our Muslim siblings, our Palestinian siblings. And that’s something that I think JVP has always been committed to. But especially after the election of Trump, it felt really, really important for us to be, you know, unequivocal about that.